ABOUT |
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Wagner Vieira Martins was born and raised in Belo Horizonte, in the state of Minas Gerais, Brazil. Mr. Martins graduated from high school and is now studying philosophy in the university. He joined the Worker's Party (PT) in 1986 and became a member of the PT state directory. In 1998 Mr. Martins joined the Landless Workers' Movement (MST) and became part of the state organizing committee. He now lives with his family at Dois de Julho, the MST camp near Belo Horizonte.
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| INTERVIEW |
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Before I came into the movement, I was an activist in the Brazilian left. I was a street vendor and participated in the activities of the street vendors' unions. At one point I was active with the people manning the informational kiosks in downtown Belo Horizonte. Later I came to the MST (Landless Workers' Movement).
I wanted to contribute to changing the reality in Brazil and to be part of a better-organized movement that could make this change possible. MST offered that, as well as a piece of land where I could raise my family.
The owners of the land we live on have challenged our takeover in court. They are challenging the decision of INCRA, an arm of the federal government concerned with agrarian reform. The National Institute of Colonization and Agrarian Reform (INCRA) decision states that land that is uncultivated for a long period of time may be claimed by the landless. The judicial system in this country is very slow; we don't know when it will be decided.
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Despite this, we continue our planting, construction and living our lives. We expect to obtain this area, especially because we already won in Brasilia, but it is moving slowly.
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"We have to continue occupation to force the government to speed up agrarian reform in the country."
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The MST has existed for almost twenty years in Brazil. We have to continue occupation to force the government to speed up agrarian reform in the country. Even though today's government is populist and progressive, we need to keep up the pressure.
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There have been some conflicts and people have died. So far, for example, in Eldorado Carajas, there have been nineteen deaths.
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What is going to minimize the violence and death-because we don't want any more deaths-is the number of families present at the moment of occupation. The more families we have, the more difficult it will be for a violent reaction from the other side.
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We know that winning an election is not the same as having power. We hope that things will be easier, and we will advance in many areas-in negotiation, understanding and allocations for agrarian reform.
But it's not going to be easy and it's not going to depend only on the government. For this reason we need to maintain an organized movement to keep up the pressure. There are a lot of people holding land in Brazil only for speculation. You have the land so that you can borrow money from the bank, but then you never pay it back. This is how it is in the current political game. For many, land does not have any value other than just being land.
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"To stir up land issues in Brazil is to stir up something very deep."
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To stir up land issues in Brazil is to stir up something very deep. Until today, Brazil is one of the few countries in the world that has not carried out land reform, because of the very conservative elite.
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Belo Horizonte is the largest city of Minas Gerais. It has almost three million people. We are working with the Belo Horizonte city hall in partnership with the federal governor of the state to bring our products to the commercial center of Belo Horizonte.
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We find a lot of support in Belo Horizonte for agrarian reform. This is where we are finding resources, both financial and material, to guarantee that the families stay on the land, stick it out, and make it work.
Today, in the majority of our encampments, we have basically everything--rice, beans, corn, greens, vegetables--but this isn't enough to sustain a family.
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What we do then is to search out work near the cities, or work for other farmers within the region. Also we seek out food support from the federal and state governments, because in the encampment you don't have any credit.
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"The MST in Brazil was born out of necessity."
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The MST in Brazil was born out of necessity. The people were being expelled from the countryside by the modernization of farming practices and the industrial modernization of Brazil with its large hydroelectric projects that changed the land in many areas. All this served to expel the rural workers.
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Coming to the large cities, they saw that they would be reduced to living in the favelas (slums). This is how the MST came to be.
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"Organize the poor to enable them to take over their piece of land."
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The philosophy of the movement is basically this: Organize the poor to enable them to take over their piece of land. Now, logically, in this period of our history we understand that it is not enough just to control a piece of land. It's necessary to mount pressure to change the economic model.
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If there is no resource to invest in the little things-tractors for the small producer, university research for the small producer--we won't be able to maintain the land. We need to pressure society to change this.
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We see our own history, our struggles as part of a much larger struggle. Our models are varied-from Che Guevara to the Catholic Church--we look to their determination and the sacrifices they made as encouragement to keep up the fight.
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"There is no humanitarian aspect behind the financial interests of globalization."
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Globalization, from the point of view of facilitating the interchange of cultures and life experiences between peoples, is very interesting. Also, facilitating the export of what we produce locally could be a very positive outcome.
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But this isn't what is happening. Globalization is only serving the interests of the financial capitalists. The scientific knowledge required to end hunger here in Brazil is not part of their agenda.
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Today, more and more, the multinational industries are advancing rapidly in the research and control of the genetically engineered seeds. In the future, any producer, in order to produce, will have to buy seed from these multinationals, making it very difficult for him to produce.
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There is no humanitarian aspect behind the financial interests of globalization. The main interest is financial.
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"The big producers control things all the way to the government's budget."
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It's hard to end hunger when poor farmers have no credit for seeds and irrigation equipment, when the local infrastructure--housing, health, schools and roads--is inadequate.
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Most of this country's investments -Lula's government could change it a little bit-are directed towards the concerns of big business. The public universities use public money to do research for the multinationals. The big producers control things all the way to the government's budget. It's a terrible impediment to combat hunger.
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Now, in Brazil, there is no need to import anything. We have enough food to end hunger in Brazil, if the small producers are allowed to produce.
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We have studies showing that seventy percent of what the Brazilian people consume comes from the small proprietors. The large ones produce primarily for export. You can see that the large plantations here in Brazil grow soy and corn for export and are not directed toward making food for Brazilian people.
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"The whole process took a step backwards."
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President Fernando Cardoso had a policy aimed at defeating the MST. He created laws making it more difficult for families to get situated quickly, making it more difficult to access credit, etc.
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The fact that we have been in this encampment for several years has a lot to do with the political situation and its influence on the judiciary system. From the moment the courts stated that they could not free up the lands, the whole process took a step backwards.
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"We are not giving up."
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It is obvious that they tried to win by tiring us out, wearing us down to the point of giving up the fight. We are not giving up. Obviously, the families would like to have their houses constructed, their piece of the lot, access to credit; it would be much better, they would be much happier, of course. But this will not make the people give up.
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I believe that two years from now, we will have seized the land and be farming it. We will be in a better situation.
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This will depend a bit on the decisions of Lula's government to speed up agrarian reform in the country. So we-not only in this encampment, but in other encampments-are having a hard time with the delay. This causes some problems, but not so bad as to make us give up.
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"I believe my son will have a better life."
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The quality of life in the countryside is much better than in the large cities, where the majority of Brazilians live. Favela life is not easy: there is violence, drugs, sanitation problems, open sewers.
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An encampment, by itself, is a better quality of life. We have families coming to the encampment, desperately escaping that situation in the slums. These are people who leave the countryside, thinking to better their lives in the city, but find it worse and return to the encampment.
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We all want to see our children raised in the best way possible. Here we keep on building houses because they shelter us from the hot climate and keep us warmer in cooler weather. I want to see my son wandering freely in nature, alongside the animals, having greater contact with nature.
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Also, our life here will provide him with a different education. The MST school has a different world vision, including a critical vision. I believe my son will have a better life than many, many Brazilians.
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Video
